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| A DIALOGUE WITH LEBANON 'S AYATOLLAH Robert L. Pollock Wall StreetJournal, March 14, 2009 "I have not found in the whole long history of the Arab-Israeli conflict even one neutral American position. We used to love America in the region in the '40s. [President Woodrow] Wilson 's principles [of national self-determination] represent freedom facing a Europe that was colonizing us. But America now is living a policy worse than that of British and French colonialism." So said Muhammad Hussein Fadhlullah early one morning last week, and I suppose I should not have been surprised. We met in a nondescript--but heavily guarded--office building in south Beirut . On my way there I had noticed, as in the Bekaa Valley a day earlier, numerous posters celebrating Hezbollah "martyrs." According to many, the Grand Ayatollah Fadhlullah is Hezbollah's spiritual leader. He is not actually a member of the famous Lebanese Shiite organization headed by Hassan Nasrallah.... I point out that many people associate political Shiism with Iran and a concept known as Welayat al-Faqih--or Guardianship of the Jurist--which has been used to justify the authoritarian regimes of the Ayatollahs Khomeini and Khameini. "I don't believe that Welayat al-Faqih has any role in Lebanon ," Mr. Fadhlullah says without hesitation. "Perhaps some Lebanese commit themselves to the policy of the Guardian Jurist, as some of them commit themselves to the policy of the Vatican [ Lebanon 's large Maronite community is Catholic]. My opinion is that I don't see the Guardianship of the Jurist as the definitive Islamic regime." When a Muslim goes to vote should he care more about a cleric's opinion than anyone else's? "He should care about his own stance . . . . The Islamic idea says: When you cast your ballot, you have to watch for God because God will hold you responsible for the results of this ballot. If the person you voted for was unjust, God will hold you accountable for participating in his injustice. . . . Hence, the Americans who voted for George Bush are responsible for all the blood shed in his wars and occupations." That seems as good an opening as any to broach the subject of Hezbollah. Does he think it's healthy that Lebanon 's Shiites are increasingly associated with such a party? His answer, in effect, is that Hezbollah is a force for modernization: "Hezbollah is a group of Shiites who are university educated. We know that you will find at universities, whether here in Lebanon or in the West, many who agree with the thought of Hezbollah." True enough, at least as concerns attitudes toward Israel .Then the answer gets more interesting: "We do not reject the West. But we disagree with some Western administrations. We believe that America is not the administration ruling America . America is rather the universities, the research centers and the American people. That is why we want to be friends with the American people with all their variation. I was the first Islamic figure to denounce what happened on September 11. I issued a press release after four hours saying that this affair is not acceptable by any mind, divine law or religion. What these people did was directed to the American people not to the American administration." I can't help but interject. Hadn't he just told me the American people were in fact responsible for the actions of the leaders they voted for? He responds that the people bear "a responsibility," but concedes they can't predict their leaders' future actions. "What I am trying to say," he continues, "is that perhaps we want to be friends with the American people to engage them in a dialogue about their choices as they engage in a dialogue about our choices.... "I think that some of [President Barack Obama's] statements show that he believes in the method of dialogue. But here is an important point: America is not ruled by a person, it is ruled by institutions. The question is what is the influence of institutions like the Congress and others on the president. Can the president, if he has private opinions, can he carry them out facing institutions and conditions challenging the administration?... We don't have a problem with any American president, but our problem is with his policy that might affect our strategic interest. We love freedom, therefore we are with whoever lives with us on the basis that we are free." But didn't George Bush say that he wanted to bring freedom and democracy to the Middle East ? Was he not sincere in those words?... "Could democracy be forced upon peoples? Does occupation represent a title of democracy for people? Democracy sets out from the free choices of peoples.... His policy was the mentality of war, not a humane mentality. He might have spoken about 'peace,' but he saved 'war' inside the word 'peace.' That is why he was even rejected by American public opinion." I raise Hezbollah again. Does the Iranian-backed group have Lebanon 's best interests at heart? Or does it have ambitions outside Lebanon ? For whom is it working? "I don't think that the Lebanese Hezbollah has a project beyond Lebanon . Because it does not have the capacity to do so.... Hezbollah is supplementary to the Lebanese Army defending the country. If the Lebanese Army reaches a level of strength enabling it to defend the country, there would be no longer a need for the resistance." And what about the posters, I ask? Imad Mugniyeh didn't just fight Israel , he killed a lot of Americans. Does he think the children of the neighborhood should look at the posters and think Mugniyeh is a hero?... "It is very natural that the American policy was interconnected with the Israeli policy.... Therefore the issue was not setting out from a person, but from the conflict between the East and the West, and through the political and security anarchy in Lebanon . In my own belief, this stage is no longer existent, but the problem remains that the American policy is 100% identical to the Israeli policy.... We in the region therefore consider the American policy responsible for whatever Israel does, because there is a strategic alliance between Israel and America in all the aggressions carried out by Israel There is an impression in the Arab region, that might be controversial, that Israel is the one ruling the United States and not the other way around. America is one of the Jewish colonies." Does the Ayatollah believe that? "I am close," he says. "Anyway, we believe that Obama lived in a poor and disadvantaged environment. He was poor. Therefore, we might listen to some of his statements trying to alleviate taxes on the poor and impose them on the rich. We say to him: Be with the disadvantaged, be with the poor, be with the people living and seeking their humanity, and you will be the best American president in history. Be humane." The interview is over. We pose for pictures and the Ayatollah presents me with an English translation of one of his books: Islam: The Religion of Dialogue. He signs it for me in Arabic: "With my affection and prayers." (Robert L. Pollock is the Wall Street Journal's editorial features editor.) |
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